Online Optimism
All right. Well, thanks for joining us, Tracy. How are you?

Traci Scherck
I’m great. It’s a beautiful spring day. I hope it is for you as well.

Online Optimism
The morning was a little rainy, but it’s beautiful outside now so Except for it’s a lot more summer here right now, but glad to hear that. It’s great where you are So thanks so much for joining us I know that the two of you met at a conference that really focused on talent optimization So as a person who wasn’t there I want to know more about what specifically that is

Traci Scherck
Absolutely. So talent optimization is really a discipline that looks at how do we focus on the people inside of our organizations? And you know, sometimes it’s so easy to go to the negatives, right? So why do people leave and then we can flip that to a positive. So what we find is individuals leave organizations for four key reasons. They leave an organization because they’re not a right fit to the role.

They leave an organization because there’s a mismatch with their manager. Their manager is not managing them the way they need to be managed. They leave because they don’t jive with their team, right? Like they’re, they’re not connected. They’re, they’re, their work with their team is not something that makes them want to come to work every day. Then the fourth is the organizational culture. So talent optimization is all about putting the right people on, on the right bus.

in the right seat with the right person next to them with the right driver. So that’s talent optimization.

Online Optimism
That makes so much sense. I recently have experienced, kind of just like a mismatch fit. So how do you know, like going into the interview process, how someone is going to be the right fit for those four places?

Traci Scherck
Absolutely, and that’s such a great question. So there’s a number of ways we can do it. One, I’m gonna talk about an easy button that we use. And so this is a tool called Predictive Index. You can do it without it, but it’s easier with it, right? And so we actually look at and say, what does the job need, right? Because when you know what the job needs, so for example, if you’re in accounting, that job needs you to be incredibly detail oriented and follow very specific processes.

But if you are in marketing and a podcast host, you kind of have to be on the fly. You have to be willing to have a mic in front of your face, all those things, right? So the job needs two very different things between that. So the first thing we do is we figure out what does the job need? And then we figure out who is the person that is stepping into this and are they a match for the job?

Online Optimism
So when you write job descriptions, how do you cater those job descriptions to find that match? Are you explaining the type of personalities that you’re looking for, or how do you elicit that response from the individuals who apply?

Traci Scherck
This is such a great question. So there’s three things we look for when we bring an individual in, right? We’re looking, and we call them the head, the heart, and the briefcase. So the head is what is their behavioral and their cognitive abilities, and these are natural. These do not change over time, right? So behavioral would be something that is, hey, I’m somebody that is really quick to make a decision. I’m somebody that is very, very independently driven. I don’t wait for someone else to tell me what to do, right?

natural behaviors. And so when we’re looking for that, you know, that can be in the job description a bit when we look at, hey, reasoning abilities and those kinds of things, but that’s something that we really get from a job assessment. So we can write that out or we can hit an easy button. And predictive index has a job assessment that you can have your team members like your manager, your

a rock star on the roll, someone in HR, take this job assessment, and then they calibrate it. And the reason why the calibration is so incredibly important is, you know, Mira, if you believe that this job needs, you know, somebody super detailed ranted, but Sam believes that this job needs somebody that just looks at bullet points, you’re at two opposite ends of the spectrum. And now the person comes into the role and they feel like they’re an octopus being pulled in eight different directions.

Online Optimism
Mm-hmm.

Traci Scherck
Right? So when we do the job assessment, we’re really looking at that to say very specifically, you know, what does this job need? And do our leaders around the table all agree that this is what the job needs? So that’s that head piece. And so Sam, the next part of your question really gets into what about the job description itself? The job description for the most part is looking at the briefcase.

These are what are the knowledge, skills, and abilities that this individual needs, right? These can change over time. And so for the person, the job might not change over time, but the person will. So we’re writing that in the job description and there’s legal reasons, right? There’s compliance reasons why we have to have a job description.

So we have that for those reasons. And so we’re looking at both. We’re looking at the job assessment. We’re looking at the job description. Then we’re looking at another piece that we so often don’t see. And we like to call this the employee value proposition. Essentially it is stating, what is the culture of your organization? And are you going to be a culture fit for our organization? Or are we looking for a culture add because we’re ready to change our organization?

Does that answer your question, Sam?

Online Optimism
So? I think so, yeah. It was a lot more in depth. I think that when we write our job descriptions and we think about hiring, I think that we think about a lot of those things but don’t express it as clearly as that. And we may not follow through with every one of those steps because we don’t outwardly express that, if that makes sense. Yeah.

Traci Scherck
Yeah, absolutely. So can I ask you a question? This is a fun one. How have you ever hired someone and you’re like, Oh my gosh, like the interview, they are the perfect person for this job. Then 30, 60, 90 days later, you’re like, who the heck are you? And where’s the person I interviewed? I want them back.

Online Optimism
Sure.

Online Optimism
Yeah. Yes. I’ll let Mira take this one. I kind of recently went through that. It like, felt like a great culture fit through the interview process. And then when this person started, it, I think it was kind of clear to both of us that like, I don’t know if this was the job they thought they were joining. This is not the person I thought I was hiring. I felt like it was a pretty mutual, like this didn’t work, let’s go our separate ways.

Traci Scherck
Yeah, absolutely. And here’s the thing, this happens so often. And when we take a step back and say, Hey, let’s do the job assessment. So we really know what the job needs from a behavioral perspective.

let’s then take a look at the culture and really spend some time creating, you know, this is what our culture looks like here. It’s not just words on a wall, right? It’s, it’s not something that is what we want it to be, you know, it’s what it actually is. So that we then know we’re bringing that right person, because let’s, let’s look at it and say, hey, if we have an individual that the job needs them to be incredibly outgoing, we can’t train them to be outgoing, they either are they

Thanks for watching!

Online Optimism
Yeah, yeah. So this assessment, is this that thing where it’s like a slider and it’s like, what do you think is more important, like this or this? And people have to like pick it or is this like, how does this assessment work?

Traci Scherck
Oh, so I can put a link in your show notes if you want. So anyone can take it and it’s fantastic. So it’s a quick five minute assessment. And what it does is it just gives you two questions. One question is specifically looking at and saying, who do you believe you are? And you have all these different kind of traits like outgoing.

reflective attention to detail, right? So you just choose the words that you think you are. Then the next question says, how do you believe you need to be in your job?

Online Optimism
Huh, interesting.

Traci Scherck
So it’s two questions and you pick the words. And so, and that’s something that, you know, is a key distinction from some others is it’s open. You get to choose what those are. From there, the report, and you’ll get emailed the report immediately, the report will say, hey, here is, you know, who you are naturally, and then here is, you know, how you believe you need to be based on the current job that you’re in.

And that’s where we can see a distinction of, hey, is someone naturally incredibly outgoing and incredibly extroverted yet in their job, they’re not talking. What’s going on there? So those are the conversations that we can have just off that behavioral assessment.

Online Optimism
So if you’re hiring, should you be hiring people based off of who they think they are?

Traci Scherck
Mm-hmm.

Traci Scherck
Great question. So when you’re hiring, you want to specifically look at your job assessment, right? So what does the job need? And we want to hire based off of what the job is, but we want to look at who the person is, not who they believe they need to be, right? Because we can all stretch into different roles.

Online Optimism
Okay.

Traci Scherck
However, some stretches are much, much harder than others. So for example, I’m naturally risk tolerant. I will naturally take risks. Now if I have to be in a position where I have to be very risk adverse and I can’t take any risks, it’s going to be really difficult for me. And so it’s really looking at that and saying, hey, is this an easy shift and how long do I need to stay in this for that?

So let me give you an example. Early in my career, I started out in payroll and I did payroll for actually seven years. And I was so motivated because I wanted to learn and I wanted to learn and I wanted to know all the basis of things. But yet it got to a point where I’m like, I hate this. If I have to do like one more thing, I’m going to poke my eye out with a pen because all the attention to detail isn’t naturally who I am. But I was motivated early in my career to do that because it was a need that I have. It no longer is.

Online Optimism
Hmm, so if someone’s feeling unhappy with their job, do you think they could take this assessment and it can help them pinpoint what the problem is? Because I feel like if I was like, am I not getting along with my manager or is it the work itself that’s not matching me? If I took this assessment, I imagine that it would be like, well, this is you and this is who you’re trying to be for work, so that’s not the same person.

Traci Scherck
Does that make sense?

Traci Scherck
Yeah, and that’s something we actually do so often inside the organizations that we work with. And we call it a fit gap analysis. Okay, so we’ll actually go through and say, all right, here’s what the job needs. This person, you know, is what whatever percentage of a match and the system will actually tell you, hey, they score a 10 or an eight or seven or whatever. And we can have that conversation, but it will also tell us what jobs they are a great match for.

and we can start to slide them into different positions. So one of the questions that you had asked me as we were chatting beforehand is, hey, we’re a small organization, less than 30 employees. How does this work for small organizations where we don’t have a ton of people we can move around, but some of it is looking at, hey, where are areas that may be a better match that we can try it as a project? We’ve got the short-term project that we can shift you into and have you on this project team

period of time. Like the podcast might be a perfect example, right? This may be an outlet for you to really allow this extroverted you to step in so that you can kind of, you know, ramp up some of that energy that you need in the other areas. So that’s an example. Another one is looking at the teams that we’re a part of because this is a big part of talent optimization is are you on a dream team? Are you on a team where you have each other’s backs and what that looks like?

And so looking at the team as a whole and the strategy the team’s executing really allows us to do that.

Online Optimism
I think that’s a great point. And we try and do that at Online Optimism and have a lot of internal projects that we work on, whether they’re website initiatives or creative initiatives like this podcast. And again, you’re kind of putting a name to the things that we sort of do already, but not fully realize all of the actual study benefits of. So I think it’s really cool to hear from you, Tracy, about

you know, putting an actual process around what it is that we’re sort of doing. I do have a question about kind of what you touched on, about talent and why so many people are disengaged in their work environments, and how we can kind of pull people back in when they seem like they’re falling off in terms of staying engaged at work and really being their full self.

Traci Scherck
I love this question, Sam. Thank you so much for asking it. So engagement is one of those things where you really need to look at it and say, what is driving that? And you can do this through employee engagement surveys. Right?

And you can do it just from sitting down and having a conversation. And depending upon the size of your organization, this answer may differ, right? And larger organizations, I would absolutely say, let’s do an employee engagement survey on an annual basis and really take a look at what that is. You know, you can heat map, um, you know, kind of what managers are doing great to not, et cetera, but it really goes back to these four key items that we talked about at the beginning with talent optimization, are they in the right role?

Is their manager managing them the way they need to be managed? And so often our managers manage the way they’ve been managed or the way the manager needs to be managed, not the way the employee needs to be managed. Let me give you an example. Um, you know, I’m somebody that, that like flies really fast, right? Like I’ll just come in and say, Hey, I’ve got this question. 10 minutes later. Hey, I’ve got this question. And you’re like, um, I’m very process oriented. So Tracy, every time you come in, it takes me an hour and a half to get back to work.

but you’re not gonna tell me that, right? So part of the engagement is one, asking the question, what’s going on, right? What’s going on? What do you need? What do you need in your work environment to be successful? And that’s one way of really looking at it. So that’s how that manager’s working. The third is that team. So, does the individual feel like they’re contributing to something bigger than themselves? And this gets into the culture as well.

You know, so Siam, you kind of led with, hey, am I in a job that’s fulfilling to me? And that’s really, really important. And what does that actually mean? And does the work that they’re doing, are they able to do that without red tape and interruption where they’re frustrated that they don’t feel that they can actually accomplish the goal that they’re being asked to accomplish? So how do you find that out as an organization? Chat with your staff, right?

Traci Scherck
Like really chat with your staff and figure out what that is. Because one of the things that we see is, do we have individuals that are at a have to curve? Like I’m at work because I have to be here, or are they at the want to curve where they’re coming up and saying, hey, Mira, there’s this thing you’re doing this podcast. Can I be a part of it? That tells you they’re engaged.

Online Optimism
Yeah, I definitely see that. Honestly, my own team members, one of my senior staff members, she is very much engaged in the, I see you doing this thing. I want to learn how to be part of this. I want to be part of this project. And it’s very exciting to see her have that initiative and that interest in what we’re doing, rather than me having to like.

drag her into the projects. And I just wanna say, Tracy, you struck a chord with me as well, specifically about how to communicate with your team members and employees. And as a manager, I’ve learned that I communicate with people, or I used to, I’m trying to, in a way that I want people to communicate with me and not necessarily the other way around. And I think that that’s really important to realize, specifically with my insistence on calling people

I like to call people, I like to have face-to-face videos with people and talk through problems. And some people like that and other people have specifically told me, we could just slack about this, we could just email about this, this does not need to be a call. And so just learning how to approach people in a way that they want to be approached and not…

the other way around I think is really important in terms of building a team and adjusting to your team members work habits. I think Sam is really burying the lead here and that we’ve both worked here for about five years. We’ve been here pretty much the whole time together and we’ve had many shifts in how we communicate with each other. It used to be a lot of me just being like, you can’t talk to me, like you can’t come do this anymore. Like, just send me a message. I’m a bit of an interrupter, I’m a bit of an interrupter.

So I think something like this would really help learn those styles.

Traci Scherck
So.

You know, and there’s a one-on-one relationship guide where you can actually see, you know, Sam, here’s how you’re naturally wired. Mira, here’s how you’re naturally wired. It gives you tips on how to communicate with each other and what that looks like. And what I hear you talking about is it’s really the communication drive, right? And you know, what it sounds like, Sam, is you’re someone that likes to think out loud, right? So you’re somebody that really wants to talk through it. And Mira, you’re somebody that’s really

Online Optimism
Wow.

Traci Scherck
analytical. So if I were to say to you, you know, Mira, no agenda, no agenda. So like when you come to a meeting, you need to have that agenda ahead of time, because you’re really thoughtfully going to go through that. And you don’t necessarily want to speak unless you know, and you’ve done the research ahead of time. Or as Sam, I think you and I are probably more alike with saying,

Online Optimism
Yeah.

Traci Scherck
just throw me a question, I’ll answer it, it’s good, I can think on my feet, right? And neither one is good or bad, but it depends upon what does the role need, and then understanding we need both of these at different extremes, and so how do we ensure that we have an understanding of who we naturally are and how we can turn up each other’s strengths?

Online Optimism
Yeah. How do you feel about different personality assessments? Because as a company, we’ve done disk, and we’ve also done the Strengths Finder. I also did that as Strengths Quest when I was in college. So I’m really familiar with the two of those. And I just want to know how you feel like those fall in professionally.

Traci Scherck
Yeah.

So there are different, there’s different uses for each one, right? So, you know, one of the things that I love about Strengths Finders is it tells you where your potential strengths are, right? So it’s saying, hey, here’s some strengths that you can turn up based on situations. You know, Myers Briggs is also great and disc as well, because those, you know, those are forced choice. So you’re forcing a choice for as predictive index is open choice, right? So it’s different in how

like, but they’re really looking at four different areas as well. They’re great for team building and they come out with some new things with them. One of the things that, and the reason why I actually chose predictive index is because predictive index

There’s validation studies out there that you can use it for hire and you can’t use any of those other ones for hire And because you have here’s the job assessment. Here’s what the job needs Here’s what the person is and when you match those things together, you’re gonna get much better hires So again, there’s a place and a space for all of them There’s times where I actually use like, you know Strengths finders when I’m coaching because I can go much deeper in it than I can with predictive index

Online Optimism
Yeah, that makes sense. I feel like a lot of our hires, including myself, started as specialists. And it almost feels like the specialist program is our own person-to-person predictive interest of getting to know the person and then knowing the position that we have open and identifying if they fill that. And specialists are interns, are paid interns. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, sorry.

Traci Scherck
Okay.

Online Optimism
Tracy, thank you so much for joining us. I know that we could talk to you all day, but we try and keep these relatively short so that we can get all the best insights up front. So I think we are gonna wrap it up, but I do wanna make sure to open it up to you to kinda talk about what you do and how people can find you and some other projects or initiatives that you’re working on.

Traci Scherck
Absolutely. So you can find me on LinkedIn. I also have a podcast that comes out every Thursday. It’s called Talent Optimization with Tracy Shark and we talk all about talent optimization. So if you love this conversation, you can get so much more there. And then we utilize predictive index and really work that in with teams to help them really unleash the power of their people so that they can be fulfilled in their work.

and you can find that at our website, which is elevated talent consulting.com.

Online Optimism
I know for a fact I will be checking out your podcast. I already have ideas. All right, well thanks so much for joining us, Tracy. It was so nice meeting you. I think that wraps it up. Yeah, thank you so much again. And we’ll stop our recording, but we can still chat a little bit. Yeah, don’t hang up yet.