Online Optimism
Are we starting yet? Okay, sorry. Cool. All right. So I’m going to jump in and say thanks for joining us, Hellas. And that’ll be the start here. Sorry. All right. Thanks for joining us, Hellas. How are you? Great. Well, super excited to be talking to you about TikTok today. It is one of my favorite topics. So I think the best question to ask off the bat about TikTok is…

Heliz Mazouri
I’m good, I’m really good. Happy to be here.

Online Optimism
Why has it been such a digital disruptor and like what makes it stand out as a social platform?

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah, I think, so I think what’s really cool about TikTok and like what made it stand out in the beginning of it becoming, because it had been around for a while, but it sort of started to become more of like a mainstream for everyone at probably like end of 2020 early, or end of 2019, early 2020. And I think what made it stand out in that time was it kind of the way that it democratized how people

Online Optimism
Yeah.

Heliz Mazouri
were like stumbling upon and discovering new content and like different creators and people. And you didn’t already have to have this huge following or like tons of engagement to end up on someone’s for you page. So that kind of endless scroll was way more diversified and way more interesting because of that. And I think that stood out to people and maybe felt not just more.

compelling to watch, but more engaging to also jump in and try to be a part of. So I think that was initially what makes TikTok stand out for sure.

Online Optimism
Yeah, I think it’s an easier barrier to entry to like try to become an influencer on TikTok. Like you don’t have to do as much like work and like social networking as you do as the other platforms. Also, do you think that? Sorry.

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah. Yeah, like you really truly, I was just going to say you really truly can just like put whatever you’re feeling out there and there is a big chance that it could just, you know, take off.

Online Optimism
The amount of times that I’ve seen someone post something with like no hashtags, no caption and it like blows up and then they’re in the comments they’re like oh no I didn’t think anyone would see this.

Heliz Mazouri
It feels like that’s almost every single viral video. There’s always like a response follow up like that.

Online Optimism
All of mine have gone viral. I’m like, nope, this is the one that I put the least amount of effort in, and I just wanted to make a joke for my friends to see. And now the whole world knows. What I think is so interesting about it is

Heliz Mazouri
I feel like that’s another, oh sorry, go ahead.

Online Optimism
the for you page allows you to connect with people about topics that you thought you were really alone in feeling or expressing. And all of a sudden, there are hundreds of thousands of people who have the same exact thought about the same exact book, or movie or whatever it is. And that is really what got me hooked on it. And now yeah, I’m addicted to it.

Heliz Mazouri
Yes. It’s addicting to come across things that are so like niche relatable. Like you, I feel like a common comment I always see is somebody saying in the comments like, oh, I’ve never had an original thought, have I? Because everything on your for you page is so hyper-specific. It’s like borderline terrifying, but you love it at the same time. So I, yeah, I feel like the addiction is like the…

Online Optimism
Yeah.

Heliz Mazouri
the way that you just, you’ve never felt so relatable.

Online Optimism
So speaking of that, what’s a common misconception about TikTok that you think is hindering companies from using it or getting in the way of it becoming more, um, you know, widespread even than it is now.

Heliz Mazouri
I think that there’s maybe like a hesitance from maybe like brands and advertisers to experiment sometimes. And TikTok is the type of platform that like really calls for trying new things, experimenting in different ways. And I feel like a lot of brands hesitate to hop on that train. And sometimes that’s really smart because not every platform is going to be for you. But…

Sometimes that’s also, it really like holds you back because you’re not able to, think of different ways to connect with people and your customers because you’re hesitant to even like try a platform like this. But yeah, I think overall the platform calls for experimentation and some advertisers don’t know how to jump out of like what they already know or like maybe like a.

a more specific view of what they view reaching out to their customers is and engaging with their customers. But if they tried it, I think that this platform is the perfect place to do that.

Online Optimism
Do you think picking up on that? Do you think that brands are stuck in the mindset of what they think TikTok was or used to be? And is that a block as well?

Heliz Mazouri
Definitely, yeah. I think that everybody tends to think of it as like a dancing app. And there’s a lot of dancing, but I feel like once your algorithm starts to kind of like learn more of your content, like the people who aren’t just, there are people who aren’t just seeing dancing vids. There are people who will definitely see different types of videos. And there’s so many niche pockets of the app, like so many different communities to tap into. And…

Online Optimism
Yeah.

Heliz Mazouri
I think that, yeah, sometimes brands tend to maybe forget that it is so multifaceted.

Online Optimism
I don’t think I have seen like a trending dance on my For You page since summer 2020 with the Renegade. Months, months for me as well. And if a brand saw my TikTok For You page, they’d say, why did they make an app that has frogs all the time? Like, what is this? Who is this guy? So I think, yeah, the For You page, the algorithm, it’s so attentive to what you like that you can get past dancing really quickly once you start using it.

Heliz Mazouri
Thank you.

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah.

Heliz Mazouri
really quickly, yeah.

Online Optimism
Oh, perfect. So what kind of companies would you recommend to use TikTok for ads? So who do you think it does fit with? You had mentioned that it’s not for everyone. But what brands do you think work best for it?

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah. So, yeah, like I said, I definitely don’t think that it’s for everyone, but I think that everyone should at least try it and like try to experiment there. I do think that brands with products, particularly like something tangible where somebody wants to see how it’s made. So, I think like small businesses in particular are really great on TikTok because

they can really show like the process of something being made. I think that totally applies to larger businesses as well. But I think there’s something really compelling about seeing something start to finish. And, you know, on one hand, there’s like that transparency, that business transparency that’s so like, you know, engaging builds trust. But then there’s something really compelling about being a viewer who’s like learning more just through watching your.

content and learning more about maybe a specific type of industry. So I think that any type of business with a product where you can kind of show like a tangible product, where you can show something start to finish is really interesting for people. Um, I also think there are some, I think there are some industries that have fun on tech talk that are like maybe unorthodox. Um, I think you airlines. Yes. Okay.

Online Optimism
Airlines

Heliz Mazouri
So I, okay, I feel like industries that have maybe a reputation for being like stuffier have huge success on TikTok. Like you can look at like airlines, the medical, like medical professionals, lawyers, teachers. My favorite is bookstores. I love seeing bookstores on TikTok. I think that they have some of the best, like the most interesting content. Like

Online Optimism
Yeah.

Heliz Mazouri
Booktalk is so huge, but they not only tap into Booktalk, they also just have like their own interesting content in different bookstores everywhere. It’s so fun to see how libraries and bookstores make content on.

Online Optimism
I think one of the ways that bookstores does it really well is they’re not approaching it as like, hey, I’m a bookseller wanting to tell you a book. They’re like, we’re readers. We’re readers and here’s how we feel about books. And I think that TikTok allows businesses to have that really personal angle and like brands.

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah.

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah.

Heliz Mazouri
Exactly. It doesn’t have to be about like selling all the time. It doesn’t have to feel like a transaction. It really is, you know, like TikTok’s like culture is so non-curated that it’s it just lends itself really well to like a business or any type of like small business, big business being really personal and intimate and connecting with the people through the screen.

Online Optimism
So that kind of leads into an issue of, the TikToks are run by a person. You have to have someone who’s the face of your brand as your TikTok, but at the same time, it’s still this faceless brand, and there’s been a lot of consumer

distrust when it comes to like, oh, it’s just the brand manager. It’s it’s like, you know, I told my boss, I want this. They’ll give me a raise if I get a million likes on this. People are like, oh, I do it for the brand manager. And there’s just this like weird, like kind of dystopian like relationship now to like the brand because of like TikTok and Twitter. So can you do you can elaborate on like how the brand voice has changed because of those two platforms?

Heliz Mazouri
Right.

Heliz Mazouri
Thank you.

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah.

Heliz Mazouri
Definitely. This is something that we talk about often too, like even as a copywriter, and we’re constantly working on brand voice and how we evolve that throughout the years and everything and throughout different changes on social. What’s really interesting is that I think social has fueled this, like a specific type of brand voice now, where we’ve sort of…

We’re definitely more in like the individual social media manager as the voice of brands on not just TikTok, but just like social media period. So it’s, you know, people, consumers are super savvy now. We have a lot of insight and we can, we know that there is a single person behind an account, just like you were saying. So with that knowledge, it’s, it’s a lot more engaging to just like.

tear that wall down and talk directly to that person and know that is the voice that’s being, you know, a message to you and across different platforms. So I think that, you know, when you see brands like Duolingo, who they have like a great, they have like obviously a great social presence, you know, everybody is talking about how well they’re doing to talk and other platforms, but that social media manager is also like, people know who she is and,

She makes her own content and it’s all very like, people are aware of the individual now. And I think that individual voice is now brand voices on social.

Online Optimism
I think it’s kind of interesting because a lot of people say they like they want to be Duolingo TikTok they want to be Wendy’s Twitter and it’s like well that’s a person and that’s a very funny person and you don’t just get to like wake up and be them that’s their personality.

Heliz Mazouri
Exactly. Like, exactly. Like that’s the secret to it is that it’s not as contrived as you think. Like it’s not as much of like a complex strategy as, you know, a business would treat it. It really is just they’re, you know, higher talented, talented people who, you know, understand how to connect with others and they will take your brand voice bar.

Online Optimism
And you have to live and breathe TikTok and the internet to understand all the references and to create the videos and to create the style that brands are looking for. I think one of the big issues is you have these brands that have one person as that voice, but then they need approval from seven different people in order to post a TikTok. And you cannot.

expand your presence, especially with the number of TikToks that you need to create to make an impact with that level of approval, I think.

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah, I think that insane levels of bureaucracy can hinder creativity and reach for sure. But yeah, I do think that there are some great examples out there of how people have been able to be successful and in a way that is not a bad light on the brand, doesn’t harm the brand. And I hope that those examples, some of those shining examples.

kind of set a standard for other brands. So it’s not just, you know, this like scary thing to experiment with, but like a real standard to live up to.

Online Optimism
Yeah, it’s kind of a bummer. I feel like a lot of brands want to have like really polished social presence and it’s like, but that’s not social. Like the whole point of social media is people. So your brand should like engage like a person.

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah.

Heliz Mazouri
Exactly. And that’s especially not like TikTok. Like that is a bee polished and hyper curated. Like the whole culture of the platform is really like a response to how, you know, we started to become like a very curated culture on social. And this is just sort of like a new era of moving away from that a little bit. And we’re seeing it across platforms for sure. But I think that TikTok has been driving it a little bit.

Online Optimism
Yeah.

Online Optimism
Yeah, I don’t have time to explain to someone in the C-suite why I need to comment five tomatoes on this person’s TikTok. I just need to comment right now. It’s important. You’d have to comment. Well, so, you know, a lot of businesses are thinking now, should we be on TikTok? But you know, there’s also reels and now there’s YouTube shorts. So how should businesses know which place is the right one for them?

Heliz Mazouri
Just trust me.

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah, I think it’s hard to know if you don’t without trying. So I do think that trying a new platform is always going to be worth it. You know, even in the end, if you feel like this is not the place that you are, you know, every business knows their audience best, right? So in after trying something, if you decide that like a specific platform is not where you’re reaching your audience is not where you’re, you know, connecting with new people or, you know, doing something meaningful, then

Online Optimism
Yeah.

Heliz Mazouri
You can feel free to move on from that platform, but at least trying and not just doing what you do on one platform and copy and pasting that onto other platforms, but really like giving the culture of the platform a shot is always going to work to your benefit as a business, as a brand, because you will always learn something from that experience, you know, regardless of how it goes. And you will always be able to apply those learnings to.

you know, new things that pop up because social moves so fast that it’s, you really, everything that we have done in the past will inform our future on different platforms. So I, I don’t think that there is a great way to know which platform to, uh, like devote more time and resources to. I just think that it is super important to, for businesses to, um, try and, you know, jump into a few different things.

Online Optimism
How long do you think they should be willing to give it a shot for? Cause you know, like on Tik Tok, you can post a hundred videos before you get that one and like, and you have to post a hundred videos. Honestly, you have to keep posting. That’s really the key.

Heliz Mazouri
True. It is.

Heliz Mazouri
Truly, that is a little bit of the secret. I, it’s hard to say that there is like a duration of time that anybody should specifically be trying things for, but I will say longer than you think probably. So I would say, I give it a few months, give it a quarter. You know, see a quarter at minimum, give it a couple quarters maybe, but one quarter at minimum.

to at least test for a few months how something is working.

Online Optimism
Are there any metrics that you’re seeing that indicate that your TikToks are doing well? Like I, I know that on a lot of platforms we look at, you know, likes, comments, stuff, like TikTok or Instagram. Instagram is always saying saves. Saves mean a lot, saves and shares. But on TikTok, I find that my videos, they get a lot of saves and shares.

aren’t really there then it stops showing.

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah, I don’t think there’s any specific metrics to look at. I really do think that all types of engagement matter on a platform like this, because it is so just kind of raw and real. I think that just having clear goals up front on your end, as a brand, is, you know the way that your audience engages with you, and you know when you meet a new audience how they engage with you. So how…

You know what those like success metrics look like and you create those success metrics, you know, going into new situations based on, you know, your past.

Online Optimism
Yeah, I feel like, I know that I asked the question, but I feel like a lot of brands probably need to look at correlation to when they started using TikTok as opposed to direct results. Do you know when I use Duolingo? Not when I see a video. When I’m watching a random TikTok, I open it, something absolutely unhinged is in the comments and I’m like, oh, I need to go practice my Spanish today.

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah.

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah, that’s a great example of how brand voice kind of carries over into those areas. And those are harder to kind of find metrics on, or those are harder to kind of pull data from, because it is so widespread, you know, if somebody sees a comment and thinks of your brand. But I do think that social listening is a great piece there, too. You can kind of keep track of conversations happening.

um, about your brand in different places. So there could be, I think that your point about correlation is definitely a factor in that.

Online Optimism
Yeah. Can I go off script for a second and ask a personal question if you don’t mind? Oh my god, online off script? I’m going online off script here. But what does your For You page look like? What do you scroll through? What do you see?

Heliz Mazouri
I’m not sure if I’m supposed to be like that.

Alright.

Heliz Mazouri
Um, it’s so, it’s so chaotic. Um, I, what? It’s so, it’s so personal, right? I feel like right now it is heavy book talk. Like I am, I’m not just on book talk, but I’m on like book talk criticism. Like it is, there’s just like, I’ve got my, my book talk videos and then I’ve got my videos of people criticizing book talk. And I.

Online Optimism
This is like asking to see someone’s diary. Yeah, I’m sorry. This might be so personal. Yeah.

Online Optimism
Okay.

Online Optimism
I’m not sure if you can hear me. I am a vocalist. So I’m not sure if you can hear me. I’m not sure if you can hear me. There are… ..

Heliz Mazouri
I feel both opinions. I’m in both areas. So that’s kind of my, my for you page is like conflicting right now. What else? There are, I’m getting like some, I’m a little in crystal TikTok right now. So I’ve definitely been getting like, like small businesses who sell crystals and they’re, they do like packing videos of like packaging the crystals up and showing off the, I’m just, it’s, some of it is ASMR.

Online Optimism
The packing ASMR. It’s so good. The packing ASMR.

Heliz Mazouri
I’ve never been an ASMR content person, but these Crystal videos are so soothing. So I am kind of, I’m definitely getting some of that on my page.

Online Optimism
Well, thanks for sharing. I know that is kind of personal, honestly.

Heliz Mazouri
What is, wait, what about you? What’s your for you page looking like right now?

Online Optimism
Oh, man, I saw already hinted a little bit, but my for you page right now. I’m a huge dog person. So dog and then frogs. I’m getting a lot of frogs in some sort of. Miniature business setting. I think I’m seeing, seeing a lot of that.

Heliz Mazouri
Oh, I’m not.

Heliz Mazouri
Thank you.

Online Optimism
Then I’m getting a lot of travel stuff I’m getting a lot of Iceland and Switzerland videos that are just sort of these huge panoramic views And so I think I need to go to Switzerland with my dog and find some frogs Can I give my for you page hot tip? Yeah. Oh Did you have something hell is

Heliz Mazouri
and they’re.

Heliz Mazouri
Bye.

Heliz Mazouri
No, I just said, I agree. I think so. I think that’s what you need to do. Yeah.

Online Optimism
Oh, that’s what I need to do. Yeah. So I run a book. I’m a book talker. I have an account dedicated to book talk, but I also have my personal TikTok. And I think that all people running a like professional page be that for themselves as an influencer, as a business, you got to have two accounts. You got to have the account that you’re growing and you only engage within that community. But in your personal account, that is where you find memes. I find memes and trends on my personal account. Never on Book Talk.

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah.

Online Optimism
People are like, oh, I’ve not seen this one before. I’m like, yeah, because you’re only looking at Book Talk. And you’ll find so much more if you look on another For You page. Yeah. So that’s my hot tip. Yeah, if you’re promoting a product, like a beauty product, so you’re only in beauty spaces, you need to go out of there. Yeah, you’re going to get the same thing over and over and over again. Yep. All right. What?

Heliz Mazouri
That’s a good point.

Yeah, yeah, I think that’s especially true for professional accounts.

Heliz Mazouri
Exactly. It’d be like an echo chamber.

Online Optimism
Yep. Yeah. Oh, echo chamber so bad on TikTok. Anyways, that wraps up all of our questions. You were fantastic. Thank you so much. Can you tell the people where they’ll find you on social?

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah, totally.

Heliz Mazouri
Awesome.

Thank you so much.

Heliz Mazouri
Where they’ll find me. Yeah, so I am on TikTok. I, hjm08, I’m not, I don’t have any viral content. I am just there to post for my friends, truly. I will be one of those people, if anything ever goes minutely viral, I’ll be like, I never expected this. But yeah, I truly just post for my friends there. And then on Instagram, you can find me at hellisjawsome.

Online Optimism
Awesome. Do you want to promote any professional accounts? Do you want to promote Sprout?

Heliz Mazouri
I have, I do not currently, yeah, Sprout, like definitely Sprout Social. We create some really fun, interesting stuff on, on there. We have like a in-house brand creative team. So we get to create some really fun, interesting content there. So look at Sprout Social on Instagram and follow us on Twitter.

Online Optimism
Cool. Kat, do you want us to rerun through those again more concisely or are you able to edit that?

Heliz Mazouri
I can definitely do that again.

Online Optimism
Let’s do a second take. OK, so I’ll say that we’re done again. Sam will thank you. I’ll ask if you. I’ll say better, like, if people want to find you, where would that be? And then you can run through any of your. You don’t have to promote those if you don’t want to. Do you want me to leave those out? Or like,

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah, so if we just want to do like sprout social and then I guess like, yeah, I can I can like mention my name. Well, no, I’m private. So it doesn’t matter. Okay. Yeah.

Online Optimism
Yeah, why not? Do, yeah, whatever you want. Okay, so I’ll thank, okay. Thank you so much, Ellis, for joining us. That was great and really appreciate that. Loved talking TikTok with you. If people wanted to find you on, or Sprout on social media, where would they go?

Heliz Mazouri
Yeah. So, um, definitely you can find Sprout on Instagram. We do some really cool content there. We have some really great team members who are, whose faces you’ll find on Instagram. So follow at Sprout social, um, on Instagram and follow us on Twitter. Um, and Tik TOK actually, uh, we’re on Tik TOK. We’re creating videos, Olivia, our social media manager is there. So follow us on.

Online Optimism
Perfect promo. All right, well, I think that wraps it up. We’ll do our intro and outro afterwards. So thank you so much. That was really fantastic. Learned a lot and I’m on TikTok nine hours a day. Yeah, literally my day.

Heliz Mazouri
Hahaha

Heliz Mazouri
Honest