Meara McNitt
is recording. All right, it looks like we are all good. So Sam is just going to ask you how you’re doing and then lead us into the first question. And then we’ll just go from there. If you catch, if there’s a weird pause, it’s just us making sure that we don’t cut you off in case there’s a lag. There may also be times that we jump in and cut off a thought if it’s, you know, tracking too long. Just make sure that we keep the pace going well. But yeah, Sam, you ready?

Sam Olmsted
So we’re going to do the intro outro later. So I’m just going to say thanks for joining us, Cullen. How are you? And then we’ll get right into it. All right. Thanks for joining us, Cullen. How are you?

Cullen Factor
And I will see you next time.

Cullen Factor
I’m doing better than I deserve. How you guys doing?

Sam Olmsted
We’re doing great. So let’s just dive right into it. So for people that aren’t too familiar with the metaverse or mixed reality, can you walk us through what it is and why you’re interested in it?

Cullen Factor
You know, what I think it is, how I try to define it is it’s a spectrum. It’s all the amazing devices and all the technologies we’ve been seeing, you know, especially since, you know, the dawn of digital, where we could plug an iPod or an MP3 player into our computer and bring things with us, you know, this convergence to mobile, uh, is gigantic. I think that there’s an element of virtual reality as well.

You know, where they’re taking these amazing 3d worlds and bringing them to the headsets. And then I think there’s this other piece where we have great software, great applications, great marketing, you know, CRMs hub spot, you know, companies like Salesforce that are going to look towards that space, but they don’t exactly know where they fit yet. But as a user, I want to be able to interact with them.

in many ways. And then I think the other part of it is also hearing. You know, there’s products out there that, you know, like Ray-Ban sunglasses that may tell me something about where I’m at. And so it’s not just visual and it’s not just hearing. It’s also about feeling. There’s companies out there that are going to expose how we feel things in the internet, physically touching them without touching them at all.

Uh, you know, that, that kind of tactile thing. So, um, but what I think mixed reality is, is something that can suspend all of my disbelief and make everything indistinguishable from magic. And that’s what Arthur C. Clark said. And it’s, I wish it was my motto. I wish I made it up and I’m not going to have it perfect, but you know, any sufficiently advanced technology. Uh,

that’s indistinguishable from magic, it is magic. So I think that’s what we’re witnessing with the mixed reality is this ability for us to improve our environments and give them this magical touch.

Meara McNitt
So mixed reality, it doesn’t have to be the metaverse. It doesn’t have to be fully putting on a set of technological things to enter a virtual world. Can it just be like some small thing that someone’s already introduced into their life that they might not realize is mixed reality? Or does it have to be something more defined?

Cullen Factor
No, I don’t think it should be defined. I mean, I don’t think there’s a single person who can say they’re a PhD in mixed reality yet, no matter how many years they’ve worked on it. I think we’re at a point where, I mean, there’s great apps on your phone that you can point to something and it enhances the experience. It may augment the reality. You know, whether it’s I go to IKEA’s app and I try to put a couch in my room.

or Amazon or, you know, Warby Parker putting a pair of glasses on me. They are augmenting reality, which to me is mixing reality. So whether it’s virtual, you know, whether it’s augmented, it’s a mixed reality because I think there is a convergence, there are some things that’s bringing all those things together. And, um, I want to be at the forefront of that. I want to experience that as a user and I want to innovate in that area.

Sam Olmsted
So we’ve been kind of promised as a culture, this sort of virtual reality coming for years, it seems. And it’s gotten into Oculus and headsets and other things like that. But I don’t feel like it’s necessarily permeated our society as much as people initially thought it would as quickly as they thought it would. Now, am I just sort of seeing it in a way that I don’t fully recognize or…

Is it yet to come in a way that really? Is going to impact people on a daily basis?

Cullen Factor
I certainly think it’s not here now, that’s for sure. I think as much as they want it to be, just saying doesn’t make it so. And I mean, my personal experience with that is I picked up a MetaQuest Pro recently. I wanted to see if it was gonna be all that in a bag of chips. And I’m not gonna talk about the hardware too much, but what I didn’t understand was…

as they sign me in through my, you know, my meta credentials, through my Facebook credentials. And I have a lot of friends in my Facebook feed and my Instagram feed.

Two people showed up as people that I knew that were in the Oculus world. And it doesn’t even, for me, it feels like, and I know who these people are, they’re developers. So it doesn’t feel like to me this has gotten even past the inventors. I don’t even think the early adopters are here yet. I think who is here, the people who love Steam, who love video games, it’s absolutely here for them.

But how they experience those games, I don’t think is necessarily about connection and community. What I saw recently in Meta’s metaverse, it really reminded me of 1999. It reminded me of GeoCities. That’s what it felt like. It felt like, you know, make your own website. And I went into a room.

Because I wanted to meet some people. I actually wanted to see how I could connect because that’s what I love doing. I love connecting to people. I love connecting ideas. So I’m thinking I’ll meet some people. It sounded like an Xbox user group from 2001 to play Halo. And I’m hearing things, I’m like, oh, okay. But then I bump into this one kind person and they’re talking to me and they say, what brings you here?

Cullen Factor
And I was like, Oh, let me lean in. This is awesome. You know, someone’s going to talk to me. So I’m talking for a minute. And then he asks me some other kind of very scripty questions. And I said, Oh, you know, are you, are you affiliated with this room? Did you make the room? He says, no, I work for, I work for Metta. I was like, Oh, that’s awesome. They have community leaders in here. And I literally hear him mutter to me. Yeah. She’s don’t know how long I’m going to be here for. I could be a couple of days left. And when I hear something like, yeah.

Sam Olmsted
Oh my God.

Cullen Factor
When I hear something like that, and obviously we’re seeing a lot of really, uh, big headlines about companies cutting headcount. And I hear that attitude. I don’t know how far they’re going to take it there. I think that they’ve got the resources to do whatever they dream up. Um, but are they really dreaming up something that people are asking for? Are they, are they really tuning into people’s frequencies?

to find out what’s gonna connect them. And I don’t think they have at all.

Meara McNitt
Yeah, my question is, do you think that, sorry, just getting over cold, do you think that meta leaned into the metaverse too hard, too fast for what society was willing to do?

Cullen Factor
No, because, you know, no matter what I think, no matter what I say,

If you really believe something, you should push it. You should do it. And I don’t think that they leaned in. I think that, you know, I can only, I can’t speak on behalf of Mark Zuckerberg, but I think he was excited about that space. And I think that this was passionate for him. I think the problem is, is that their culture isn’t necessarily about building communities.

Cullen Factor
I think one of the reasons I like going there is the people that I can connect to from the past, family members that I’m not close by to, and we’re trying to create our own communities. But it doesn’t seem like they’re able to see what people are really looking for today in a community. You know, whether it’s, you know, a community that’s built around inclusion, whether that’s a community built around like, I love Lego. I like Lego series play.

you know, that kind of thing, but building an experience around those communities. And I went to hundreds of rooms recently and really couldn’t find that.

Meara McNitt
I think that the community aspect is a really good point. You know, hearing you talk about the metaverse, and I am a metaverse skeptic. I’m someone like, I don’t think I ever see myself doing that. But at the same time, I’m 27. When I was 10 years old, I was obsessed with Club Penguin. All my friends were on Neopets. They were doing the web 2 version of this, except we were penguins and not versions of ourselves.

But as you talk about going in and talking to your community, it’s like, that’s what makes me think of, is that you would go on these places and find people who were interested in the things that you were interested in. And even today, the way that social networks break out is on Twitter, you follow people that are in these communities you’re interested in. On TikTok, there’s obviously niches. You get algorithmed into communities. On Tumblr, like you had like a specialty that was like your special interest. I think that meta is kind of missing a mark

making those communities more vibrant and like specific for people to be like, oh, I was in a sorority. I would love to talk to women that were also in my sorority in this sphere, something like that.

Sam Olmsted
And they have so much data. There’s so many data points about these people, the communities they’re in, the Facebook groups, their likes, their dislikes. We know that from a marketing standpoint that there’s so much data about these people. And yet it feels like the metaverse is like you said, sort of like the wild west. I feel like I’m walking into like a digital skate park with seventh graders like making fun of me. And like…

Cullen Factor
Well, I think… who made fun of you at the skate park?

Sam Olmsted
Well, I got into the metaverse. I have an Oculus and I was just walking around kind of like you. Yeah. I was kind of like walking around in the metaverse or in, in my kind of Oculus like playground. Um, and you know, I ran into kids kind of like go call a duty game and you know, they were, they were talking to each other and they were in their little click. And I was just like, what am I doing here? There’s th there’s just a few random.

Cullen Factor
Oh, this actually happened.

Sam Olmsted
people that I have no idea who they are, there was no direction or community building, like you’re saying, in that ecosystem. But I wasn’t really in, yeah.

Cullen Factor
And also it’s too, I’m sorry, but that gets to the point of where you’re looking at these platforms that are talking about verification. You know, for me, verification isn’t just to see that you’re an influencer. Sometimes verification is just, you know, is everybody in here an adult? Um, is this, is this my peer, is this, is this my peer group? Yeah. So it’s not really community-based. And, you know, I think the other thing that’s really missing from

Sam Olmsted
Yes, exactly.

Cullen Factor
I’ll say the Metaverse, I’ll bring in the HoloLens. I have not tried Snap’s product. I’m dying to check it out. It looks really, really cool and it’s entry level price. There’s some really cool things about it. But like, you know, think about a lack of access. It still feels to some degree that at a $3,500 price point, Microsoft not really interested in anyone like me just having fun with it. I mean, if you just go to their website and you want to try it out.

and you think about buying it, they instantly tell you, this is non-returnable. You know, and not that everybody’s just going to run into a store, just try something and flip it. There’s definitely the people who do that. And that’s part of the industry. And then they knock it down 10% at Best Buy and, you know, people get a deal on it. But for the most part, people want a genuine experience. And if you’re already telling them,

You know, if you take this, that’s it. And you can’t really give me the benefits. You know, I’m looking elsewhere. So, uh, I think the hardware and the big issue that I have, like if I had one personal thing that really disappointed me.

So you have the three $400 Oculus headsets. I picked up the Pro because I thought that it was gonna be a much higher level experience. But the pass through feels like I’m in a world of static. And then someone said, and whether it’s true or not, oh, they’re gonna do an update and it’s gonna be clear. Well, then why put out the product? So the product feels very disconnected from

the engineers and the strategy teams who work together to really make products seamless. And that’s why when I was saying about 1999, this feels like GeoCities.

Cullen Factor
No one has claimed this market. No one has come in to define. What is going to be the best experience for a lot of people. And that’s because I don’t think people are saying, wouldn’t it be great? I couldn’t wait for this to happen. And the people that are doing that, uh, you know, cause I know we were going to talk about how.

mixed reality is crossing into other places. But look at healthcare. Healthcare is so exciting. There’s a doctor and I apologize, I can’t think of his name and I’d be happy to send you the link to this article. And I’m gonna give you the explain it like I’m five version because the technical is, it’s deep. And I read it like 20 times and I was like, how am I gonna explain this to them? And it’s just like, just do it like you’re five or tell them.

Sam Olmsted
it.

Cullen Factor
But basically someone had a hip, there was something wrong with it. And this doctor looked at it and said, I want to pull this up underneath my headset. You know? Um, so he puts on his headset, he takes a look, gets all these measurements, sees the problem and knows what they have to replace inside the hip. He takes this data, this hard visual data, everything and designs.

what needs to go right back into that spot so it fits in nicely with a 3D printer. And this is where reality really mixes because it’s like, wow, we have this incredible site to look at this, to scientifically map it, you know. And then I’m taking a 3D printer, and then he made some type of registration device that would be near the site of the surgery so that

Um, he knew that everything was aligned, you know, so that when it clicked in, you know, the headset’s probably going, you know, good job, doc, we’re good. We’re out of here. And that is gigantic. You think about in healthcare, you know, and also take this another step forward. I was talking to some of my friends who are in oncology that are surgeons and the idea that they could get into a situation.

where they could pull in another oncologist on the other side of the world by looking through their headset and this other person, this other doctor is giving them guidance and then take that a step further.

Cullen Factor
Are you guys familiar with emerge.io?

Meara McNitt
No.

Cullen Factor
Okay. I have, I have to be direct. I haven’t had the product to test yet. I’m actually going to be talking to them very soon, but they basically made a flat speaker that looks like this. It’s like a square white flat thing. You can look it up and you can use it with your Oculus. And it puts out ultrasound waves. Now, why is that amazing? Because I have my glasses on. I’m inside a world, whatever I’m in.

and I can feel the world because it’s sending waves up to my hand. It’s actually given me tactile haptics and I’m not wearing gloves. I am touching in a sense, the internet. Um, kind of reminds me of what Scott Forstall said about the iPad. You have the internet right in your hands. It’s like, well, now you’re actually feeling like you’re inside of it. And now I could be touching it. I could be building it. Um, my favorite one is.

Sam Olmsted
holding it.

Cullen Factor
They were talking about like, you know, potentially shooting force lightning out of your hands. And I like that. You know, I also like the idea of, yeah, I mean, or just being obi one and just, you know, opening the door. I mean, every time I go past the door and I can do that, you know, I’m going to do that. It’s obi one, you know? So feeling, feeling the force. Why aren’t we there yet?

Sam Olmsted
course, yeah.

Meara McNitt
Wait.

Sam Olmsted
Why aren’t we there yet? Is it, are we not there from a tech standpoint? Or is it people haven’t thought of these ways and executed them? Or is it the communities aren’t there, the culture is not there?

Cullen Factor
I think, yeah.

No, I think all of the pieces are there. It’s we haven’t had leadership and visionaries that are bringing those people together. And that’s really something that I’m hoping to do in this space is connect people and really get these things into the spotlight. When you think about the fun of a game, now let’s get back to healthcare. How does that connect to healthcare?

It’s a static device. But yesterday I was talking to the most fascinating person. He’s a gentleman named John Samuels. And he wrote a book that just came out called, uh, don’t ask the blind person for directions and it’s his.

version of somebody with disabilities making their way through the world and trying to find connection. So I was asking him, I said, you know, I’m going to be talking to this team about mixed reality. And we were talking about how the Bose glasses really helped him. But when I told him about this,

It was all, you could feel the emotion coming through. It’s like, you know, if I could walk down the street and what our idea was, like, what if you had this with you and it was giving you, you know, tactile responses for what’s coming, you know, I could feel, you know, something that’s, you know, maybe it’s giving me direction which way to go because people who can’t see rely deeply on sound.

Cullen Factor
But if you could add something else to that in a touch world, if that type of technology becomes mobile, you’re unstoppable. I mean, think about at Disney, they have this incredible 4D experience where you go play this, you know, Vader Immortal game, which is so much fun. And it’s on Oculus, you could play it, but they give you this, you know, this chess piece and you put it on, all this other stuff to walk through to give you this response. But…

You know, to me, there’s technology out there. So I think it’s just a matter of, you know, the, the strategic partners getting together, and I think you’re seeing all this, but it’s really going to be about who comes from the top, I think to make an operating system for everyone. Um, and there may be a few big players at some point, you know, I’ve heard a lot of talk that Apple’s working on something, and if this is like 99, and I keep talking about that for a reason.

99, you had geo cities, which was horrible, right? And then over the next couple of years, what rolls out is Apple puts out their first service, uh, for creating websites. You know, it’s really for Apple users. And, you know, you have Microsoft doing their, their things. Yahoo is doing geo cities. And, but the big thing that’s happening at that moment is MP3s are getting

compressed and Napster has created a new way for us to, you know, distribute music. But where do we want it? We want it on a device. I river nomad, uh, I omega had an MP3 player. Sony was the biggest name in mobile at that time. There were so many players coming out with different things and nobody could figure out the best experience. So I think also.

Forget about the fact that Apple made the iPod and that it was the best experience. Apple made that for a closed community. You could not use the iPod unless you had a Mac. You had to have a FireWire connection to your Mac. And for the first few years, that’s all it was. So I think…

Sam Olmsted
and iTunes.

Cullen Factor
Well, right. And iTunes came, if you remember, because Carly Fiorina at Hewlett Packard had an incredible vision to work with Steve Jobs to say, Hey, can we get this iPod over here? Let’s put iTunes on the PC. So what I’m kind of wondering is, you know, you could say that maybe, maybe Meta leaned in too quickly. I can’t speak to that. Like, I don’t know. I’m glad that somebody’s trying to make this great. But at the same time.

What would have happened if that company was still developing on its own and hadn’t sold at that point? You know, what kind of innovation do we see? Cause you know, I think sometimes, you know, we’re more likely to swing for the fences a little bit when we’re a little more naive and it’s okay because we’re making a lot more mistakes. And I think that in the product that I see, it seems like they’re very afraid to make mistakes and take big risks. Um,

That what got me to the MetaQuest Pro was that I have multiple, multiple machines that I run. I have a desktop back here that has three screens in the background that I use. I have a laptop that I use and the idea that I could bring them together in a different location and look at them and interact with them was something I was like, oh, that, that would be really good. You know, I could do a few things.

And unless they were connected to ethernet, it really wasn’t a very good experience. Take that another step further.

Cullen Factor
there was lag, it was almost like you see the fireworks and then you hear the fireworks. So I was actually like touching my laptop and what I’m seeing here was happening at a different time. So it’s kind of amazing that they haven’t figured that out. And to me, probably accessing one of Microsoft’s computers in the cloud would be a better experience, but I don’t want to pay for that. I’ve got two really great machines here.

Cullen Factor
So that part I think is missing, but getting back to the health part.

Cullen Factor
You need visionaries, you know, you need people who are going to put out gigantic ideas. And not every, not those people aren’t always the ones who solve them. You know, they get people to think about it, you know, um, and a great example of that, the best example of how this technology has been used in mixed reality. My favorite is the Mandalorian.

You guys watch the show?

Cullen Factor
Remember how it’s filmed?

Sam Olmsted
Yeah, I watch it. Definitely.

Cullen Factor
Yeah, it’s in the volume. They have this gigantic circular tent, if you will, filled with, I think they’re 8K screens, and they’re using Unreal Engine to feed the 3D environment that the actors are inside of. And I’m on a screen looking at it, and I can see the environment moving around like a video game, and I can record. That’s mixed reality for creating film.

And I think that experience, that kind of thing is going to move into the consumer market because that’s what people want. They want to be immersed. I don’t just want to put on a pair of glasses and be in a virtual environment. I want my environment to be augmented and I want you to put things in front of me. Maybe not everybody’s going to have a screen to do that with yet, but those are the kinds of experiences I think people are really looking forward to.

I think in the gaming, you know, in the gaming world, if you will. But this leads me back to who ties it together, who does it the best.

For me, when I think of healthcare, I think of sustainability. And when I think of sustainability, I think about sustaining life. And sustainability is not just me putting a can into the recycling bin. It’s not just using something over and over, it’s also about sustaining life. And what I’m hoping for most from mixed reality is safety in the auto industry.

Meara McNitt
That was going to be my next question is, how do you feel mixed reality applies there with the safety in the auto industry?

Cullen Factor
I mean, we’re, yeah.

Cullen Factor
So I’ve owned two Teslas. I can’t talk about my experience with them, but I can tell you that I thought autonomous driving was going to be here several years ago. It’s not here. And I think that has a lot to do that we don’t have a high speed network across the whole country. So I don’t think it’s the car manufacturers’ fault. And I can’t really blame the wireless industry. It’s tough.

You know, they’re trying to get a network out there to everybody. And I hope that happens. But what could we do at the local level with mixed reality? And this is very Willy Wonka, if you will. Uh, and it’s kind of funny cause I’m wearing my purple coat today and it just made me feel very, very Wonka ish. But what would, what would be the coolest thing to me is not Apple designing a car. I don’t think they’re making a car.

I think they have a whole team of people working on car technology, but it’s just like when they said, oh, Apple’s making a TV, Apple’s making a TV, there’s going to be a TV set. Where’s the TV?

It’s not even that, it was the content. It’s the content that they brought to you. Apple TV Plus, all the movies. It was a delivery system for content. No TV set. Making cars is a lot of money. Retail is a really hard business that Apple’s really good at, but could you imagine waiting two weeks to get your car fixed? To get an appointment? I don’t know if that’s where they’re going. My hope.

Sam Olmsted
This big little apple. Yeah. Oh yeah, of course. Yeah.

Cullen Factor
This is all dream. This is all like, you know, sitting there talking to my tech friends and saying, wouldn’t this be amazing? I’ve heard a lot of talk that Apple’s AR hopes are tied into the phone. That what happens in the glasses is also going to be helped by the phone.

They also made a massive alliance with Corning several years ago, and there was a lot of capital put in there. And when you look at that, do you think it was just for Gorilla Glass so the phones won’t break?

You know, AR has been something that Tim Cook has been talking about for a really long time and what I was kind of hoping was that they had a car OS kind of like car play. It’s like, you know, it’s the, it’s the next evolution of that where they can go to the car companies and say, look, we’ve been testing cars, every car, electric, hydrogen, combustion, all of them.

But our hope was to put this in to make cars safer. And how I think mixed reality can help with that is, Corning had this kind of, I don’t know, green paper, if you will. Some people might say it’s a white paper, but they had this house of the future, all made of glass. And every single inch of that house, you could tell the glass what it was supposed to look like or not look like. I could have it clear, I could have it opaque.

I could have it look, you know, like swirlies and fun, whatever I want. I’ve wanted to look like Disney. It looks like, right. But think about that. Where does all, where does, I don’t know all, but a lot of the AR glass, a lot of this stuff that’s developed for this, the headset technology is coming from Corning. And I wonder if they’re going to get into the business of making a car windshield.

Sam Olmsted
I think I remember seeing this, yeah.

Cullen Factor
that works with an operating system that feeds us information to keep us safer. Because, you know, I’m getting older. Um, my eyesight’s not what it used to be. And, uh, recently I had to get a, uh, so I’m near sighted, but when I’m trying to read it’s hard. So they added this thing to my contact lenses that kind of gives me like the reader, but it’s not good enough. So whenever I have to do my Legos, I have to pop on my glasses.

But when I’m driving, I always think about, you know.

Where’s Starbucks? Well, I can tell you where the closest one is, but that’s not what I want. What I want you to do is tell me which one’s on my route and which one’s gonna save you the most time. And as I go there, maybe there’s some GPS instructions in the middle, but I want there to be something in my window that’s indicating where I’m going. I mean, how many times do you go under an underpass where there’s like five different highways going several different directions?

You’re in an exit that’s called 14A1BCD. And you’re just like, you know, I’m going to do my best to go through here. Hopefully I’m going to pick the right one. The GPS shows me going to the right, but really it was that one. And, you know, imagine if, if the car window was kind of giving you an overlay to show you exactly where to go or a street sign was illuminated and maybe a little more, a little more blown up for me to see that.

Meara McNitt
Yeah.

Cullen Factor
I’m driving and that not only, not only is it seeing the cyclists, it’s seeing the pedestrians, but it’s helping me to be aware of these things. And that kind of awareness is really what I’m hoping for. And that’s going to come, whether it’s this year or 10 years from now, they’re going to have to do that because that’s, that’s what people are looking for. They’re looking for the safety features. You know, I read these terrible stories about bike lists, bicyclists that are getting hit.

Meara McNitt
Ah.

Meara McNitt
Yeah.

Cullen Factor
because someone made a right-hand turn and didn’t look. And we’re not in a situation anymore where that should even be happening. The technology is so good. If I can find a developer, they could probably code it. I’ve got MIT around the block.

Meara McNitt
Right.

Meara McNitt
One time, yeah, I was gonna say, I’m already there with you. One time I was driving and a leaf hit my windshield and I was like, wow, this is HD. And then I realized this was not a screen. This is real life, that is my windshield. But you know, we’re actually, we’re running out of time here. So we only have time for one more question. So briefly as you can, what are you most optimistic about for mixed reality?

Cullen Factor
I think what I’m most optimistic about is that this is such a new era. I don’t think anyone’s wrong when they say this is the next thing that’s going to happen.

Um, I think most people would point to windows 95 being the era that ushered in, you know, the PC and technology and then, you know, AOL and the internet came and broadband, but now we’re on this other side. So I think what I’m most optimistic about is the young people and experienced people working together to make incredible advances like Lego and Epic games.

That’s probably my personal one. They have a joint venture they’re working on. It’s top secret. I know zero. Um, but I don’t know, what am I optimistic about? You know, I put, I have thousands and thousands of Legos in my house. I don’t know. Maybe just looking down from my headset and say, show me all the, uh, the pieces that are red or even. What about an experience? What if like Yoda comes along and shows me how to build something?

You know, those kinds of things, or even, look, I only have these 500 pieces. Tell me something that I can make that looks like star Wars, you know? And you think about all the communities, because Lego has an incredible community of people who build things and share their building and that kind of place, like if I’m going into that kind of reality,

Sam Olmsted
Yeah.

Cullen Factor
What I’m most optimistic about is community sharing ideas, not necessarily that it’s Lego, not necessarily that it’s Epic, but considering the Epic’s engine is, I mean, it literally is unreal. Um, those things coming together get me so excited. And I think that, you know, we’re moving away from where I think data has been very important, but I think we’re getting back to a point where intuition and our gut is what’s going to really drive.

the innovation, that’s my optimism.

Sam Olmsted
Yeah, absolutely. And I think what’s so cool is that you didn’t say what you were optimistic about necessarily from a technology standpoint. You said about how it influences you, your community, the things you’re interested in, and how that will be taken into the future. But I’m gonna wrap it up here because we are running out of time. And the last thing I wanna ask you is where people can find you, whether that’s your websites, your LinkedIn, or any kind of public profiles that you wanna.

promote and we will kind of share that as well with people and then we’ll wrap it all up

Cullen Factor
Yeah, I think the best way to get in touch with me is at LinkedIn, look up Cullen Factor, or you can go to envi and my information is there and I’d be happy to dream with you about some really cool ideas.

Sam Olmsted
Well, thank you so much, Kellen. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much for being a guest on our podcast here today. And thank you.

Cullen Factor
I had a really good time. Thank you.